L
little big man
Registered
- Nov 9, 2016
- #1
Greetings to all. Here are some pictures of my P&H diesel engine, model number 387c-18. It is a 3 cylinder 261 cubic inch rated 90 hp supercharged engine. It has a Roosa master injection pump, and a schwitzer supercharger. It also came with a GM power take off model PTA 11126. Dry weight is 1360 lbs.
Any and all info on this engine would be greatly appreciated and if anybody out there should happen to have a service and or operators manual that i could copy or download, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for looking, i hope you enjoy, l b m, more pictures to follow
Attachments
L
little big man
Registered
- Nov 9, 2016
- #3
Re: P&H Harnischfeger Diesel Engine pics. contd.
Last 4 pics. thanks for looking. Anybody out there with any knowledge at all, I would appreciate it. Size of radiator I will need, fan and etc. hope to hear from some of you, thank you all, l b m
Attachments
ListerDiesel
In Memory Of
- Age
- 78
- Last Subscription Date
- 10/24/2016
- Nov 9, 2016
- #4
While I had the book out for answering the Sheppard diesel post, I looked up this one as well.
Described as being designed and built for the excavator market, they were made in 3 and 6 cylinder format.
Bore of 4.5" and stroke of 5.5", swept volume of 261cu in and 522cu in.
Continuous power 60 and 120 hp at the relatively low speed of 1200rpm, intermittent power was higher.
They are 2-cycle engines with the individual liners carrying one head per cylinder.
Individual injection pumps like the Lister CS and JP engines.
Hope this is of some use to you.
Peter
Bill Hazzard
Registered
- Last Subscription Date
- 08/28/2008
- Nov 9, 2016
- #5
That is not a supercharger, it is a scavenging blower used to clear the products of combustion and introduce fresh air into the cylinder. Most any automotive radiator will work. It is an interesting engine, it is the first one I have seen like it.
P
popeyeje
Registered
- Nov 9, 2016
- #6
That is fantastic!
Best of luck getting all you need to get up an running.
E
enginenut2
Registered
- Age
- 82
- Nov 9, 2016
- #7
In picture 10 the square plates you see were where the individual injection pumps, actuated from the camshaft mounted, as Peter said. These had an external rack which greatly complicated the external appearance and would probably have been interesting to properly synchronize and keep clean. Volume 19 of "Diesel Engine Catalog" (1954-1955) showed the individual pumps, Volume 20 (1955-1956) pictured the Roosa Master pump. Volume 24 (1959) showed your 3 cyl model c-18 allowing a maximum HP of 144 @ 1800 RPM--torque of 336 FT.Lbs @ 1300. Same volume shows the P&H engines carrying the Fairbanks-Morse name as a model 49B4 1/2 and they had a Turbo charged 3 cyl version rated only 115 HP. Individual cylinder heads and liner assembled was said to be removable in 40 minutes. Aluminum crankcase and cylinder block kept the weight down. Single sodium cooled exhaust valve. The 6 cyl was highly advertised as a truck engine and used 2 scavenging blowers of 3 cyl size.
K-Tron
Registered
- Nov 9, 2016
- #8
A few months ago I was looking into purchasing a P&H 687C-FS, a six cylinder version of the engine you have. After consulting with several old timers that I knew from the Detroit Diesel crowd, I learned that the P&H diesels were prone to a lot of issues which came down to their unique metallurgy. P&H used aluminum blocks, unlike the successful Detroit Diesel engines. The water jacket supposedly runs right down to the taper in the block where the steel liners are fit. If the approved antifreeze treatments were not used, the aluminum block would corrode so badly that the rubber liner o-rings would be compromised in short order. I was told to stay away from it if I found coolant in the oil. As you can imagine coolant in the oil supply destroys engine bearings and can cause a real expensive mess. I unfortunately let that 687C slip away, as I had no way to fetch it. In hindsight, if cavitation and corrosion were really that much of a problem, a TIG welder and a good machine shop could have likely welded up and turned new sealing surfaces in the block. I kick myself from time to time for letting it get away. They are such unique looking engines. I hope yours is in good order. It would be so sweet to hear it chug away once again!
Chris
B
Bud Tierney
Subscriber
- Last Subscription Date
- 12/14/2020
- Nov 10, 2016
- #9
LBM---search Harnischfeger (is that correct?? I thought there was a 'p' in there??) here...there're old threads, one of which says the leaking O-rings can be avoided (or possibly just the leakage into the oil?) by draining after running...
Very few notes but do show four series of engines 287s, 387s, 487s and the above mentioned 687s, but no cyl count...have a few Diesel catalogs downstairs, will check in AM...
Believe old threads state P&H doesn't acknowledge existence, not considered shining part of Co history per owners unhappiness with water/oil leaks, but described as quite advanced for their time...
T
Thaumaturge
In Memory Of
- Age
- 72
- Last Subscription Date
- 07/12/2019
- Nov 10, 2016
- #10
Boy that is a beast! I'd get that into a DIY stump puller tractor right away.
Doc
J
John Schwiebert
Registered
- Nov 10, 2016
- #11
When I was at Ft. Belvoir in 1963 in mechanic's school they had a couple of the 6 cylinder engines there as school units. They used them to introduce us to the Roosa Master fuel systems.
B
brianh
Subscriber
- Last Subscription Date
- 12/7/2023
- Nov 10, 2016
- #12
I have a Farmall tractor book at home that shows one of those fitted into a Farmall F-30. Bet it was a beast.
R
ronm
Subscriber
- Last Subscription Date
- 05/28/2023
- Nov 10, 2016
- #13
K-Tron said:
I hope yours is in good order. It would be so sweet to hear it chug away once again!
Chris
It won't chug, it will scream! the irrigation company here used to have a dragline with a P&H in it. Sounded just like a Detroit.
Cool engine-save it!
C
clarkcr
Registered
- Jul 10, 2018
- #14
HEy Little Big Man, did you ever et the documentation you were looking for?
C
clarkcr
Registered
- Jul 25, 2019
- #15
I have a P&H as well. Does anyone have a supplier for parts?
C
Caseck
Registered
- Aug 15, 2019
- #16
I have one as well, just got a manual for it. Unfortunately the manual is the only one I could find and it’s missing some vital pages but nonetheless better then nothing. If anyone wants I can post some pics of diagrams or whatever else is useful from the manual. If you find a parts supplier please post it, would love to know where to get parts for these if possible.
T
Tad Wicks
Registered
- Dec 5, 2021
- #17
I just saw this post, I have the 6 cylinder version of this engine driving a generator, it came from the airport in Santa Barbara, Ca. It was set up to run all the electronics in the control tower and airport lights. The generator is as I recall is around 70KW and was designed to start itself and switch off grid to full power in in something like 5 seconds or less in the event of a power fluctuation of a certain percent or no power at all and when all was well switch back to grid power with little or no interruption at all. The switch gear came with it, 7x3 foot tall box plumb full of stuff, no pc boards, must have cost a fortune back in the day, it also came with the load bank and a huge muffler. It was decommissioned in the early 90's. I have never ran it, I believe it was said it was getting coolant in the pan. I believe that I have a parts book and maybe a manual I will have to look for that on a rainy day (in CA that can be a very,very long time) at any rate as was mentioned above it is rated at 160hp@1200, a somewhat unique engine, one big exhaust valve in the top center of the head. Aluminum anything is a problem when it come to coolant systems but now they have sacrificial elements in water filters that eliminate electrolysis and different additives that can help with cavitation.
Last edited:
F
Fig
Registered
- Jan 1, 2022
- #18
I have the big six also. I’d be interested in any documentation you have when you run across it. Thanks.
T
Tad Wicks
Registered
- Jan 9, 2022
- #19
I will see what I can come up with
I
Istvan
Registered
- Jan 17, 2023
- #20
K-Tron said:
A few months ago I was looking into purchasing a P&H 687C-FS, a six cylinder version of the engine you have. After consulting with several old timers that I knew from the Detroit Diesel crowd, I learned that the P&H diesels were prone to a lot of issues which came down to their unique metallurgy. P&H used aluminum blocks, unlike the successful Detroit Diesel engines. The water jacket supposedly runs right down to the taper in the block where the steel liners are fit. If the approved antifreeze treatments were not used, the aluminum block would corrode so badly that the rubber liner o-rings would be compromised in short order. I was told to stay away from it if I found coolant in the oil. As you can imagine coolant in the oil supply destroys engine bearings and can cause a real expensive mess. I unfortunately let that 687C slip away, as I had no way to fetch it. In hindsight, if cavitation and corrosion were really that much of a problem, a TIG welder and a good machine shop could have likely welded up and turned new sealing surfaces in the block. I kick myself from time to time for letting it get away. They are such unique looking engines. I hope yours is in good order. It would be so sweet to hear it chug away once again!
Chris
A coworker had one on a generator 30 years ago that he sold, the new owner found it stuck and he broke something trying to fix it. I tried to buy it later, but never got any traction. I'm sure that it was scrapped, and my coworker died so the lead was lost.
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